Peer Buddhu Shah

Such beautiful love and dedication for Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj; the same incredible loving devotion that is shown by Bhai Balwant Singh Ji Rajoana today

Today marks the day of the execution date of Peer Buddhu Shah......

Peer Buddhu Shah (13 June 1647 - 21 March 1704), was a Muslim divine who was an admirer and ally of Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj.

The Peer visited the Guru regularly and at one point introduced 500 shias Muslim Pathan soldiers, who had been expelled by Aurangzeb, to the Guru- who employed them. However, when these soldiers faced battle against the Hill chiefs, they deserted the Guru's army.
The Peer was very upset by this action and brought many hundreds of his own followers and his family members to assist the Guru's force. The Guru was most impressed by this dedication shown by the Peer, in this urgently needed support. However, in supporting the Guru, this action made him an enemy of the Mughals, who in 1704 executed him.
When Banda Singh Bahadur came to know that the Peer had been executed because he helped Guru Gobind Singh in the battle of Bhangani, he avenged the Peer's death by storming Sadhaura and killing Usman Khan, who had been responsible of the Peer's death. Peer Buddhu Shah's descendants migrated to Pakistan in 1947. Their ancestral house in Sadhaura has since been converted into a Gurdwara named after Pir Buddhu Shah.

Waheguru ♥

WHY are we unhappy?

Those of you asking what sikhs are asking for? Why are we unhappy? What atrocities are we talking about?? Well, here is the testimony of Bibi Amandeep Kaur - who was picked up by police, illegally detained, tortured, raped and finally killed. Read and then tell me, why we should stay silent?

For anyone who doesnt know Bibi Amandeep Kaur was regarded as a sister by Bhai Balwant Singh Rajoana

Bibi Amandeep Kaur was the sister of Bhai Harpinder Singh Goldy aka. Pamma of the Khalistan Commando Force. She was only twenty when she was arrested, tortured, raped and then killed by the Punjab Police.

Bibi Amandeep Kaur, before her Shaheedee was on the run but had the courage to tell her story to human rights workers.

Here is her story in her own words, shortly before she was murdered [I have divided the sections for easier reading] :

Marriage & Arrest

"Jaswinder Singh Sraa son of Surjeet Singh of Jassowal village Ludhiana dst. Was born and brought up on the UK. He presently lives in Mississauga Canada.

He came to India on October 12, 1991 for marriage on October 24th. We along with my father Jaswant Sngh, village Headman Bhag Singh and Member of Panchyaat Meet Singh went to the office of the sub-registrar, Rampura Phul, for registration of the marriage. As we came out of the courtroom, the SHO of Phul, picked up three of us, me, my husband and my father. We were taken to Phul Police Station where SSP Kahlon, SP Mohkam Singh, DSP Aulah and SP of Operations were present.

Inhuman Torture

The SSP on seeing us, promptly ordered that my two male relations be stripped naked in my presence. He then took out the picture of his slain son and addressing them remarked that he had taken the revenge for the murder (by dishonouring me, the sister of an underground Sikh activist).

Kahlon then started abusing my husband and father. He took hold of a lathi to beat the two. It was then the turn of his subordinates who beat us with their leather belts. The SSP ordered that my husband and father slap each other.

After this cruel exercise, we were blindfolded. I was relieved of my two wedding rings, a pair of ear-rings and one golden chain. From my husband, the SSP snatched $500 and a bracelet of 3.5 tolas and his wedding ring. My father was similarly robbed of Rs. 2500. I and my husband were put into our van PCL-8433. We heard the SSP directing his staff to set our house on fire and bring the wife and younger daughter of Jaswant Singh (my mother and sister) to the police station for similar treatment.

After Kahlon left, we were brought back to the police station. While my husband and father were put in the lock-up, I was kept out for maltreatment [i.e. for sexual assault].

Early next morning we three were taken to Sardulgarh by our van. On October 27, my mother Surjeet Kaur was brought to us. She told us her story of dishonour [rape], torture and maltreatment. She was kept in a Rampura police station and at the head office of CIA Bathinda.

In our absence, the police from Rampura Phul ransacked our house and removed all our belongings. The village panchayat was not let anywhere near the house. No seizure report was prepared and handed over to the panchayat or anyone else.



12 Days of Terror

I, my mother and father were kept in Sardulgarh police station for 12 days. But my husband was moved to Phul police station on October 29. The SSP was present there. He ordered my husband's release on October 30, telling him to forget about his marriage to me and leave India immediately, which he did the next day. In the meantime, the village panchayat came to know of our detention at Sardulgarh and they came there to rescue us but we were removed stealthily to Boha police station.

At Boha, I was not given even water for washing under SSP's order. We were maltreated there [the woman was reluctant to give details of the mistreatment].

After eight days, the three of us were removed from Boha to CIA Bathinda. My mother and I were released from three weeks of illegal detention. My father was kept in CIA Bathinda and at Phul and was produced in a court on November 30. A case was registered against him.

KP Gill ‘Helpless’

While we were in custody, Jaswinder Singh, who happens to be brother of my father, telephoned DGP KP Gill at telephone No. 753-546840 requesting him to intervene but Gill told him that Kahlon did not listen to his advice.

We have learnt that the SSP had picked us up because on October 23, 1991, some millitants had abducted six traders of Phul and the police suspected my 16-year-old brother Harpinder Singh Goldy aka. Pamma's hand in the abduction. My brother had gone underground in the wake of police harassment in August 1991 when he was studying in class 10 + 1 .

I have gone underground to escape further humiliation and torture because the SSP Harkishan Kahlon is after me, for unknown reasons. Because of the "treatment" given to my husband, he has left me and does not wish to keep me as his wife any longer.”

Shaheedee

Bibi Amandeep Kaur stayed in hiding until January 21 1992. The police then played a sinister game. They asked he to return to her house, returning all her property and insisted they would not harass her any more. They also bailed her father the day before. Jaswant Singh did not trust the police so he did not return home. Amandeep Kaur did. When her mother was out, two gun men with masked faces came on behalf of SSP Bathinda, Kahlon, and shot Bibi Amandeep Kaur dead on January 21st at 7:30pm.



Bhai Harpinder Singh Gold, brother of Bibi Amandeep Kaur, at age 18, also later sacrificed his life for the cause of Sikh freedom

Tortured

"When Daas first heard about the appointment of Sumedh Saini as the new DGP of Police in Punjab by Badal, it brought back old memories of what we had to go through because of this dusht. Daas then thought of sharing this personal story with the forum members. I typed it but never felt like posting it. What will it achieve? Forum members will read it and then what. What do we gain by sharing all this? Who is really bothered? 21st century Sikhs are busy fighting among themselves on issues which have no relevance. Then others are happy that Badal is again back in government because he did a lot of development in Punjab. Then there are questions what is the alternatives as Bhai Kulbir Singh put it in another thread who do you vote for. So does typing all this painful experience is worth? Not sure. Daas leaves it to you all to decide that along with building up your jeevan through kamai what stand you need to take on Panthic front.

Following is not a made up story. This is a personal experience of Daas’s family and every single word is true. Please note daas has changed the years/locations etc for reasons you all know:

It was in early 90’s when the movement of Sikh homeland was at its peak. This was the time either just before or around when dusht Beantaa was chief minister of Punjab and KPS Gill was the DGP. Sumedh Saini was the SSP at that time. This was either

Our father had gone to attend Kirtan samagam. One day suddenly we heard our doorbell ringing and as my mother opened the door there were policemen in plain clothes with machine guns and rifles. As far as daas can remember there were 6-7 vehicles full of them. All of them entered the home. Some went upstairs and remaining stayed downstairs. They started ripping apart every single corner of the house looking through the stuff. Two of them grabbed me to interrogate. Their head was interrogating my mother and sister, who was just 15 years old. They were looking for our father. Anyway this went on for nearly 3-4 hours. They picked up contact diaries, photo albums and whatever else they wanted and left. My youngest brother was 7 at the time. This all happened without any legal search warrants or without any valid reason. Even when they left we were completely in dark about why they had come.

Next day we got phone call from our Babaji that my father had been picked up by some policemen along with another naujwaan Jatha singh. No one knew where they were taken. Next 7 days were like never ending days of our life when we had no clue where my father was. Then on the 8th day we finally got news that he was released. He travelled back from Chandigarh to home and reached us in the evening. As soon as he entered the home he could barely walk. His body was bruised. Earlier his beard was very long and it used to go beyond the navel point. But when he came back that day it was only few inches. It wasn’t cut but it looked like that hair had been pulled and broken. More than 85% of the beard hair had been removed.

After saanjh of fateh he was served langar by our mother. Then we all sat with him surrounding him from all sides. What he told us in next 2-3 hours is something that daas can never forget throughout his life. Whatever is written after this is in his own words…

“We were picked up by some plain clothes policemen from Punjab police and thrown in a Maruti Gypsy with black cloth tied to our eyes. Throughout the way they kept abusing us and kicking and hitting us. We don’t know how long it took to reach the interrogation center. When we reached there were no signs of police station of anything like that. It was in a remote place built like an industrial shed. As soon as we saw it we realised it was one of the CIA interrogation centres run by KPS Gill’s force. We were taken in handcuffed. When we reached there we were made to sit on the floor which was ice cold. Then the DSP Sita Ram came. As soon as he came he started slapping us and abusing us. He asked his constables to take of our kakaars and clothes. I kept fighting them as long as I could to stop them from taking of my kakaars. There were around 15 of them, kicking me with boots, slapping me… Then one of them slapped so hard that blood started coming out of my ear and I could not hear anything from that side. Eventually they managed to overpower and ripped all the clothes and took off kakaars as well. Even the kachera was not left on the body. For next 7 days we were like this without clothes. This was done to every singh they brough in to the place. Before starting on further tortures investigations this was their first step to humiliate and break the person by defying all modesty. Once they had taken off everything, they started kicking us and beating us with canes and it went on till we were unconscious.

I don’t remember how long I was unconscious but it might have been few hours as by the time I came back to senses the sun was rising and it was next morning. As soon as they found that I was opening my eyes, two of them pulled me by hair and dragged me out to another room. This is where they had atleast 7-8 other singhs tied up with chains and roped to different corners. Some of them were being given electric shocks, others were being put on the pataa (an electric motorised machine which has leather flaps tied to it and it revolves and hits you very hard ripping apart the skin.

I was thrown on the floor and two of them holded my hands and two legs. Then they brought a wooden plank and put it on my thighs. Two very heavy policemen stood on both sides and started moving it like a see-saw. During all the time they kept abusing me in filthy language, saying abusive words about Guru Sahib, about amritdharis. For these two days I was not even once asked or told why I was in this place. After having endured all this pain, the next part was electic shocks. They started with ears and then went on to give shock on other parts of the body till I passed out. Every time they moved me from one location to other, they used to drag me by either hairs or beard. We didn’t had any food or water for all these days.

Then on fourth day I was told “Chal teri peshi hai saahab de kol” (Come it’s you appearance in-front of the Sahib). I was passed through a number of courtyards and taken to an open area which was paved with rough stone slabs. The scene there was unbearable to watch. They had drums full of human excretion filled with urine and toilet. Singhs were thrown on the floor and the choora will throw the drum full of the dirt on the singh. Then two of them will hold the legs or arms and drag from one side to the other on that rough concrete floor. Amazingly while this was done singhs were still shouting jaikaare and doing naam abhyaas loudly. Others who had not done abhyaas before in life were unable to bear the pain and were screaming in pain. When all of this was done I was thrown on one corner. Then someone came later and put 2-3 buckets of ice cold water on me to remove the dirt. The water was so cold it will give more pain on the fresh wounds. But by that time my body was getting used to this daily torture and I wan’t feeling anything.

Then I was taken to the room where the darbar of Sumedh Saini was in progress. My turn came and saini asked me, “Fer akal aayi ke nahin tenu” (So are you back to senses?). I asked him about what? He said “Tu vadda khalistani banya firda hain.” I said when did I said anything about khalistaan. He shouted back with abuses and said “Tu jehde apne kanjraan nu Milan gaya si jail vich”. Then I realised why I was there. Few weeks back Jatha singhs had organised a visit to the jails to supply the singhs arrested with warm clothes and blankets. I was among the singhs who was given this seva. We were denied meeting with any prisoners but as I had to sign the register before entering the prison with Name and Address, they must have used it to track who is trying to look after the singhs in prisons. I told him I just went there as a humble sikh of Guru Sahib. As soon as I said Guru sahib he started shouting abuses and using filthy language about Dashmesh pita. Then told me in the end “Jaake keh daeen apne yaraan nu ki din thode hi han, kale kale nu ethe leaake maaroonga, paani mangan joge vi nahin rehne.” (Go and tell your friends that I will bring them all here one by one and kill them in a way they won’t even ask for water). Then he ordered his men to take me away and do sewa (torture) for few more days before disposing me. The next two days were the repeat of what had happened in last 5 days. On the 7th day I was told that Saini is willing to release me if I can give him the names of kharku singhs. I refused saying that I don’t know any kharkus and I am a central government employee and he will have to release me one day. I don’t know what happened next as he went away. I was taken in a dark room and they tied black cloth on my eyes and covered the face with a rucksack. I was driven out of the place and thrown in a field. Only words I heard after that were “Oye order taan tenu maaran da hoya hai par teri chitti daarhi dekhke pata nahin kyon taras aa gaya menu, jaa bhajj jaa” (Oye order is to kill you but looking at your white beard I feel mercy for you.) I was left in the field in the dark with my hands tied to my back. I somehow managed to drag to a tubewell and stayed there all night without any clothes and next morning I was picked up by the farm owner who helped me get out of there.”

Take a Deep Breath

Since my last post, I've found it very difficult to gather my thoughts together well enough to write again. Things move so fast. Both of my brothers moved away to university (two different sides of the country), dad has decided to sell up AGAIN and move back to Camberley and I moved back in with them.

It's a lot to deal with; with an added work load, feuding parents, a house move, feuding relatives, a sick old grandmother, an eight year old who doesn't know if she's coming or going... Not to mention a dog and the financial constraints of having three of us at uni.

My mind tells me to relax. It's all under control. I meditate 'Har Har Har Har Har Har Hari' 'Tuhi Tuhi Tuhi Tuhi Tuhi'. I go to Maharaaj and feel comforted. I feel better. I think I do.

My body on the other hand, just won't have it. I'm told stress is the cause of a variety of health problems which creep on me.

It used to be, when I was stressed, the world would cave in and anger would take over. Krodh was my biggest enemy. Now, it seems the mind has retreated into it's own world and the body doesn't have the strength to withstand. It's ever so slowly... crashing. The more I try to ignore it, the worse it gets. The more I try to fight it, the worse it gets.

I know that none of this matters. Illussion. It's not real. But my body just won't listen. how do I control my body? I do everything right. I exercise, eat right, get my vitamins, drink my water.

Which brings us to the question of Karma. Whatever is happening is within Hukm (The Will). There are still some things we just can't control. So we can only accept it, and go with it...

naanak aanae aavai raas

O Nanak, as is The Will, things are made right.
Guru Nanak Dev Ji Siree Raag 25

Summer Solstice. High on Life

So it's been a while since I last posted. I came back from uni last month... Taken a while to get used to being at home again. No independent space here, no privacy...in the words of the Genie from Aladdin "PHENOMENAL COSMIC POWER!....eeeeeedie beedie living space..." Just kidding...

But it is a bit cramped here. Big family and all that.

A few weeks after I moved back home, I was off again. New Mexico, USA. Guru Ram Das Puri to be exact. I ventured out there alone for the Summer Solstice Camp hosted by 3HO, thanks to Gurumustuk Singh from Sikhnet.com.

I didn't know much about the event, apart from what I'd learnt from sikhnet.com. I'd never practised yoga on a serious level before...much like my sikhi, it was largely internet based research.

I don't really want to relay every experience I had out there. So I'm just gonna go with the flow.

Summer Solstice is definately something you have to go to; with an open mind - which might be a little difficult for a lot of punjabi's. There are people of almost every faith, nationality and ethnicity who take part. It is NOT a solely sikh event. That's one of its major charms I think. People coming together as one, praying, chanting, singing, dancing, eating together. As One.

The camp is based around the teachings of Yogi Bhajan who taught Kundalini yoga. I don't know much about the yoga, nor am I gonna pretend to. Postures wise, I thought it was fantastic. Cleared up my mind and my body definitely feels better. Yogi Ji used sikh mantras like - Satnaam, Vaheguroo, Aad Gur E Name and more alongside these different yogic postures. They're not what the typical sikh would be used to but it was a nice difference.

Rising early in the morning to Guru Singh, the very first Western Sikh in the USA, singing 'Rise Up' with a few other musicians at 3am was something to get used to...after a while I'd begin to lay awake in my tent at ten to 3, in anticipation.

Sadhana could be difficult at times...I think I only managed 2 full sadhanas the entire time I was there. The rest of the time I'd sleep through at least one segment. Tended to be yoga....

The heat was not unbearable but it chapped my lips big time. Chapstick became my lifeline. Yogi Ji's prescribed diet was definitely unbearable though...I couldnt handle mungbeans and onion soup, so pretty much lived off of fruit and almonds...and Golden Milk (Haldi doodh) during white tantric days.

My favourite thing about Guru Ram Das Puri...jam sessions. Any time of te day you could sit under a gazebo and sing or chat or meditate with whoevers there. Whether to vaaja or to a makeshift drum beat. That was awesome.

Peace Prayer Day was terrific, really got me hyped. Amazing energy. The love and energy really lets you believe that we can make a difference for Mother Earth (Maata Dharath) despite the setbacks.

White Tantric Yoga was 3 days of solid kundalini yoga with a partner. We all sat in long rows opposite our partners. It was a weird experience. Absolutely shattering and yet exhilerating. I found it weird and awkward having to stare into my partners eyes at times or hold their hands (since partners tend to be opposite gender). I found it too intimate and to be honest I'd feel the same doing it with a girl. The other thing was...a few people I spoke to had made this whole tantric experience sound like some kind of profound time and apparently a lot of partners would fall in love. Tantric , for me was a good bonding experience for the group of people I had hung around, good work out and made me feel spiritually more clear minded. Other than that...I honestly feel no different to how I feel, if not less so, when I read Gurbani.

For me, there's just nothing more uplifting than Shabad Guru.

I loved the fact that whole time we were out there, we could have a ball, literal midnight raves - without having to intoxicate ourselves with alcohol or cannabis or whatever. We were high on life, on Naam, on love. That was something I've never felt before. That was profound.

GOD???

On Wednesday I attended a lecture led by Guest Speaker Davinder Singh Panesar and hosted by Oxford University Sikh Society. - looking at the psychology of sikhism. Davinder pretty much explained to us the actual techonology of spirituality and sikhi. Sikhi is not a religion, rather its is dharam. A righteous way of life. Every single act of a gursikh has meaning and logic and benefit.

Meditation on Naam is clearly more than just a timepass. It has mental and physical benefits - he showed us the effects of prayer on water, positive energy, compared the sikhi lifestyle goals with maslos goals. It really was a terrific lecture. Everything was going so well!

The he confused us all. He made comments about God. How the sikh thought on The One has been corrupted by Western thought over time. We tried to discuss after the lecture but were mentally exhausted I think. So the next day, my facebook page was the host of a deep discussion on the matter. Here it is: (to protect the identities of those involved, names have been changed to the names of Raags used in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji)

(Asa) "What he was saying confused me, like how can ek onkar not mean God - i mean your quote above, talks about the Creator, so who/what is the Creator then? I got what he said about the "moment" and all that, but can it really be the case that everyone has got it all wrong? x"

(Basant) "To be completely honest, I'm not sure that when he said there is no 'God' - he meant there is no Higher Power. I think he was trying to take us away from the idea of 'The Man in the Sky' figure which the West has kinda given us. With or without the english translations attached, there is no doubt that Gurbani speaks of a much Higher Power, which ... See Moreis practically indescribable. The Point of our lives is NOT self-realisation. HOWEVER self-realisation is a definate required step on the path of life- in order for us to fully be able to "realise The One" and achieve Mukti. (which IS the purpose of Life from what I understand). "

(Dhanasari) " its true..to not have something/someone to believe in...to ask for guidance and to look to in times of hardship....its like shit who do i go to!? Im guessin the idea is that..to make every moment a good one you should meditate on the positive words and mantars...and those words will manifest into a positive environment and one that only good will come of.

one question...is the experience of a moment strictly down to you? if there is more than one person in the same place at the same time, then does that moment depend on how they are all thinking and feeling in the moment? spose the answer to that is to surround yourself by changi (good) sangat (company)...such a deep talk!"

(Basant) "Gurbani contantly reminds us that Satguru can be found by being in the company of those of a like-mind, the Saints, the Holy, those who have Realised the One. (As difficult as it is) If we surround ourselves with those who constantly vibrate on Naam, just like the Water he showed us, I think it can only have a positive effect on our souls...."

(Gauri) "Wait I'm confused...To (Basant) did he not agree that the purpose of like is Mukti? At the top of his little pyramid thing that he compared to Maslow's hierarchy of needs he had the word Mokhsa (freedom/ release).

(Jaitshree) "sometimes with these type of things, its always a good thing to take the good things that he said, and is ok to ignore certain things. (Basant) is, as always, being a sikh about all this and learning in what way she can. but of course there is a higher power, whether he was saying that i do not know, everywhere in gurbani is Tu, Tu , Tu,

but he said one thing which is probably the most correct, he said "dont think" haha so dont worry and dont think about it, you can always look for answers in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji: the hukamnama at Darbar Sahib today: http://www.sgpc.net/hukumnama/index.asp very appropriate. and think about the last line, " sing continually Your Glorious Praises, O Beloved; as Gurmukh, my doubts and fears have been dispelled. 7 " so dont worry, Guruji will take away whatever doubts and fears you have, it'll be fine."

(Basant) "He did talk about Mukti on his little pyramid but I think his interpretation was that to be Jeevan Mukt is simply to be free of reincarnation and that's all that life's about. So recognise who you are and you are free (like the Matrix haha). Whereas, Mukti is more a benefit of having become One with The One. Merging with The One is THE purpose of Life. Mukti is a gift."

(Jaitshree) "and about Mukti this shabad somes it up well: Sooraj Kiran Mile: The rays of light merge with the sun, and the water merges with water. One's light blends with the Light, and one becomes totally perfect. I see God, hear God, and speak of the One and only God, The soul is the Creator of the expanse of creation. Without God, I know no other at all. He Himself is the Creator, and he Himself is the Enjoyer. He created the Creation. Prays Nanak, they alone know this, who drink in the subtle essence of the Lord....anyways the first few lines is what Mukti is."

(Kalyaan) "Yo (Dhanasari), the point is that you come to a point where you look to yoursef!! God aint gonna fix anything, no matter how much you pray. In most religions, God is a scapegoat. From what I've interpreted, the monotheistic view given by western religious thought is completely different than what our Gurus have provided (athiest?). God is more of a ... spirit, a collective that includes everything and everyone--kinda like the notion of the Universe. To (Jaitshree), I know he says 'tu," but that could mean anything. He could be talking to the world or the universe as 'tu.' You are the creator, you are created, you are my mother, my father, etc. you are everything. All of this can be addressed to something other than 'God' as described in western thought as a 'diety' (which is what most Sikhs perceive God to be). I swear I've been saying something along these lines all along. I wish I coulda made it to the talk! Guru Nanak is a genius.... And to (Asa), yes it's true that everyone (well not everyone, but you get the jist) has it wrong. That's often the case! When people believe things blindly, they speak blindly, they think blindly, live blindly and will die still not being able to see! Blind believers are missing out of the whole point of Sikhism!"

(Dhanasari) "to (Kalyaan)! I am actually understanding now what you were talking about all that time ago! God is not a deity and more a collective as you said!.."

(Basant) Though you are right, we have to look to ourselves sometimes, it does not necessarily mean that Akaal Purakh isn't there for support as well (hence Chaupai Sahib). Western views or teachings or whatever you want to call them may well have seeped into Sikhi, but that it doesn't mean that the Guru's were atheist. For me the supreme authority on Gurbani is Bhai Gurdas Ji, because, at the end of the day it was him who was the scribe AND he was around when the Guru's were. And in his Vaars he pretty much explains that atheists are not close to The One.

Not everyone follows blindly but besides that, Gurbani shows us how having 100% faith in ANYTHING is above all that. Baghat Dhanna Jatt treated a stone like God, trying to feed it and not eating until it did because he TRULLY believed that the stone was God and he was lovingly devoted to it. So The One appeared before him. The Sri Guru Granth Sahib was meant to be readable and accessable to any common man or woman. Which is the logical reason why in referring to The One, words which were already around and commonly used like Har, Paramaesar, Paarabreham, Prabh, Khudaa and more are used. If they don't refer to Akaal Purakh (Immortal Creator Lord), what or who do they refer to?
At the end of the day it's just a word. God, Allah, Ram, etc. We just get afraid of the negative connotations which come with it. Like the word religion."

(Jaitshree) listen i think a lot of us are actually not disagreeing with each other, to (Kalyaan), i do not think God is a man in the sky at all, They are chakar chayn, formless, imagine like a light, and everything is in the light and the light is in everything. and the Light can be anything and everything. Of course there is a higher power, but the guy who came (Mr. Panesar) was... saying something slightly different, like its only a state of mind, or maybe i totally misunderstood that guy and it turns out we're all on the same page and there's nothing to talk about : lol. But most Sikhs, i think dont have that image of a Man in the Sky? at least from who I've talked to.. yeah and to what (Basant) is saying, like Bhagat Namdev Ji saw Waheguru Ji over 70 -80 times (i cant remember exact times), and all in different forms, and in so many shabads he talks to them. and also many shabads always asks to please grab my hand, and grab my arm and save me,Yeah .. and again I don't think we're actually disagreeing with each other here..."

(Kalyaan) "To (Basant)- The Sri Guru Granth Sahib is meant to be readable to all people, but it's funny how few people actually understand it. I, for example, do not have a very good understanding of it because it is so vast and so intellectual. The concept of Akaal Purakh (God, Ram, Allah, whatever you want to call it) is completely different is my point! The Sri Guru Granth Sahib is saying that all of these are the same--and so are we! We are all Akaal Purakh. We are all a part of something so big and completely unfathomable to our minds. That's what Japji Sahib is about. I won't comment on your reference to Chaupai Sahib because it is actually a part of the Charitars (sp?) in the Dasam Granth, one of the most controversial parts of the Dasam Granth. The Charitars talk about drugs and erotica, yet people still want to believe that these are written by our Guru...I guess that's something for another discussion, but that's why the writings from the Dasam Granth can't be referred to as 100% credible in any debate on Sikhism. And when I say athiest, I mean athiest in the western sense...which the Sri Guru Granth Sahib does not comment on.

To (Jaitshree)- What you are saying about Bhagat Namdev seeing 'Waheguru' (whatever that may be) 70-80 times, how do you know? You were not the one who put his hand in the fire or the one who saw the one who got burned. Until you have proof, how can you really know? It's only faith, but faith isn't anything for sure. Blind faith is what causes terrorism and irrationality. In a way, it can be argued that Guru Nanak was trying to teach India the scientific method lol. That's what Sikhi is about though (in my inferior understanding, at least). Guru Nanak Dev Ji spent his entire life asking why people believe things and do things blindly. He created a philosophy (not an institutionalized religion I might add) so practical, where the principal actors are the individuals! Not deities, not statues, but rather us. As Sikhs, we are the seekers of truth (or knowledge) and the only way to learn is by not believing blindly. If we believe blindly, we become unable to learn what is real and what is true. Therefore, we cannot truly be Sikhs (students, from the word 'sikhna', to learn). The search for 'God' as is ignorantly translated in translations of the SGGS is not about reaching one with a supreme or magical being that is outside of us, but rather about understanding that everything around us--including ourselves--is the 'magical being' that the Gurus keep talking about. The focus is haumai (ego). If we understand what we are a part of, we will lose this false idea of self-importance that we have, and can therefore be freed from human nature. Kinda like Buddhism, which says that it's the inflated ego that is human nature which causes suffering."

(Basant) "To (Kalyaan) I completely agree with you. From what I understand of Gurbani, the message is loud and clear. Lose your ego, realise who you are, merge with the One, achieve Mukti. The One is, indeed within Us and everything around Us, we are One. We just have to realise this. So, again , I agree. Maybe it just wasn't clear from my posts, so I apologise. "

(Jaitshree) "To (Kalyaan), what I said about Bhagat Namdev Ji is in Sri Guru Granth Sahib, and dude i totally agree with you, lmao. we are saying the same thing I promise you, I'm sorry if i've been very unclear, and maybe been using wrong words? but like (Basant) said, its just a word, so no worries and be happy :D"

__________________________END____________________________________

I don't really think I need to conclude that :-)

What are your guys thoughts??

FOR MORE INFO ABOUT THE LECTURE:

http://www.facebook.com/sjkgill#!/event.php?eid=116967741657555&ref=mf

Distance

A saint asked his disciples, 'Why do we shout in anger? Why do people shout at each other when they are upset?'

Disciples thought for a while. One of them said, 'Because we lose our calm, we shout for that.' 'But, why to shout when the other person is just next to you?' asked the saint. 'Isn't it possible to speak to him or her with a soft voice? Why do you shout at a person when you're angry?' Disciples gave some other answers but none satisfied the saint.

Finally he explained, 'When two people are angry at each other, their hearts distance a lot. To cover that distance they must shout to be able to hear each other. The angrier they are, the stronger they will have to shout to hear each other through that great distance.' Then the saint asked, 'What happens when two people fall in love? They don't shout at each other but talk softly, why? Because their hearts are very close. The distance between them is very small...' The saint continued, 'When they love each other even more, what happens? They do not speak, only whisper and they get even closer to each other in their love. Finally they even need not whisper, they only look at each other and that's all.

That is how close two people are when they love each other.'

So when you argue don't let your hearts get distanced... don't say words that distance each other more, else there will come a day when the distance is so great that you will not find the path to return.

(Taken from Delraj Singh's facebook note)